1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,360
The computer system post office
spent an arm and a leg on is faulty.

2
00:00:04,361 --> 00:00:07,040
Oh my god, it's just doubled
right in front of my eyes.

3
00:00:07,041 --> 00:00:08,480
I haven't got that money.

4
00:00:08,481 --> 00:00:10,880
The horizon system was working properly.

5
00:00:10,881 --> 00:00:14,800
The losses must have been
caused by Mr. Castleton's own error.

6
00:00:14,801 --> 00:00:17,120
How many other
sub-postmasters have you found?

7
00:00:17,121 --> 00:00:19,200
Six. We've all gone the record.

8
00:00:19,201 --> 00:00:22,160
I'm thinking, set up a
meeting, send out invitations.

9
00:00:22,161 --> 00:00:23,760
See if anyone turns up.

10
00:00:23,761 --> 00:00:27,520
The post office told
us you're the only one.

11
00:00:27,521 --> 00:00:31,120
It was a lie from this moment forward.

12
00:00:31,121 --> 00:00:35,280
None of us won't be
the only one ever again.

13
00:00:35,281 --> 00:00:43,281
I just think you made a mistake, Sam.

14
00:00:55,841 --> 00:01:01,680
I know, but the set if I plead a
guilty, I could have a shot back.

15
00:01:01,681 --> 00:01:04,160
How is that ever going to work?

16
00:01:04,161 --> 00:01:06,960
You'll be a convicted criminal.

17
00:01:06,961 --> 00:01:14,160
Look, I mean, husband, and I have
to read about this in the newspaper.

18
00:01:14,161 --> 00:01:16,320
It was on my own in the interview.

19
00:01:16,321 --> 00:01:19,280
I thought I was doing the
right thing, jazz. Please.

20
00:01:19,281 --> 00:01:21,200
You're an innocent woman.

21
00:01:21,201 --> 00:01:24,320
You should have pleaded
not guilty like we agreed.

22
00:01:24,321 --> 00:01:26,080
Come on. We're going to be late.

23
00:01:26,081 --> 00:01:28,080
We're going to start with out.

24
00:01:28,081 --> 00:01:36,081
It was unbelievable.

25
00:01:47,921 --> 00:01:50,880
The lowest day of my life.

26
00:01:50,881 --> 00:01:57,680
Hi, sorry, I've got a bit lost.

27
00:01:57,681 --> 00:02:03,360
Sorry, are you, is this we're all
former supposed masters? Come in.

28
00:02:03,361 --> 00:02:05,680
It's okay.

29
00:02:05,681 --> 00:02:12,640
Please, if I find a seat, I'm just seeing.

30
00:02:12,641 --> 00:02:14,160
Sam, from Warsaw?

31
00:02:14,161 --> 00:02:18,640
Yeah, well, well, we're
all sharing our stories.

32
00:02:18,641 --> 00:02:23,520
So, I don't know if you want to.

33
00:02:23,521 --> 00:02:31,200
I had no problems till they
sent us a new horizon pimp hat.

34
00:02:31,201 --> 00:02:36,080
They just won't have it that there's
something wrong with the thing.

35
00:02:36,081 --> 00:02:40,160
They say I'm piggybacking,
going into the till to pay out

36
00:02:40,161 --> 00:02:42,080
of pension with one hand
and pay in myself with the other.

37
00:02:42,081 --> 00:02:46,480
I'm guessing they also said you were
the only ones having these problems.

38
00:02:46,481 --> 00:02:49,440
Yeah, I'm guessing they said the same too.
Everyone else in this room, right?

39
00:02:49,441 --> 00:02:51,360
I'm such a fool. I believed them.

40
00:02:51,361 --> 00:02:53,040
I believed them.

41
00:02:53,041 --> 00:02:54,970
When they said, just
confess you took that

42
00:02:54,982 --> 00:02:57,200
L5,000 and you'll be
backing your shop tomorrow.

43
00:02:57,201 --> 00:02:59,040
You shouldn't have done that.

44
00:02:59,041 --> 00:03:00,240
It was the new pinpaddy.

45
00:03:00,241 --> 00:03:02,480
It wasn't your fault. It was an air fault.

46
00:03:02,481 --> 00:03:06,320
Actually, I pleaded guilty to you.

47
00:03:06,321 --> 00:03:08,240
So did I.

48
00:03:08,241 --> 00:03:10,400
Wait, you did.

49
00:03:10,401 --> 00:03:15,120
I can't believe it. I thought we were
on our own, you know? Not any more.

50
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,520
I'm a mother.

51
00:03:17,521 --> 00:03:20,880
I don't want to go to prison.

52
00:03:20,881 --> 00:03:23,040
No, we're changing you, please.

53
00:03:23,041 --> 00:03:24,640
Okay, not guilty.

54
00:03:24,641 --> 00:03:27,120
And this time I'm coming to court with you.

55
00:03:27,121 --> 00:03:28,000
Hey.

56
00:03:28,001 --> 00:03:32,800
Now, if you're thinking of
going to court, just be careful.

57
00:03:32,801 --> 00:03:38,400
Well, there are people
here who've done time.

58
00:03:38,401 --> 00:03:43,280
We've all lost our
businesses and our savings.

59
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,320
The question is, what are
we going to do about it?

60
00:03:48,321 --> 00:03:54,480
Empty is my thing you snore on a minute.

61
00:03:54,481 --> 00:03:56,720
It's time to be nice.

62
00:03:56,721 --> 00:03:58,960
At least you take the
trouble to turn it up.

63
00:03:58,961 --> 00:04:04,480
Mrs Hamilton.

64
00:04:04,481 --> 00:04:05,600
That's me.

65
00:04:05,601 --> 00:04:06,800
James, I've got the wrongs.

66
00:04:06,801 --> 00:04:08,080
Thank you for coming.

67
00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:08,880
My pleasure.

68
00:04:08,881 --> 00:04:09,840
Do you come in? Joe's mum.

69
00:04:09,841 --> 00:04:10,841
Hello.

70
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,480
So, one way or another,
we're all fighting back.

71
00:04:16,481 --> 00:04:17,680
Everywhere we can.

72
00:04:17,681 --> 00:04:19,920
We're even thinking
about suing the post office.

73
00:04:19,921 --> 00:04:22,400
I'd like to see you try with no money.

74
00:04:22,401 --> 00:04:24,240
Well, good job talking to your MP.

75
00:04:24,241 --> 00:04:25,760
Cost absolutely nothing.

76
00:04:25,761 --> 00:04:27,200
It's just homemade.

77
00:04:27,201 --> 00:04:28,160
Well, it looks delicious.

78
00:04:28,161 --> 00:04:28,960
Thank you, I will.

79
00:04:28,961 --> 00:04:33,680
We thought maybe you could
talk to the government or something.

80
00:04:33,681 --> 00:04:35,440
Yes, indeed.

81
00:04:35,441 --> 00:04:39,920
There are two other cases
in my constituency alone.

82
00:04:39,921 --> 00:04:41,200
Wow, really?

83
00:04:41,201 --> 00:04:42,400
It's very odd, isn't it?

84
00:04:42,401 --> 00:04:44,960
I mean, the post office
is a national institution.

85
00:04:44,961 --> 00:04:48,640
You think you could trust them
to listen to their own people.

86
00:04:48,641 --> 00:04:50,240
Personally, Mr.

87
00:04:50,241 --> 00:04:51,280
Arbeth? No, James, please.

88
00:04:51,281 --> 00:04:54,240
I wouldn't trust them as
far as I could throw them.

89
00:04:54,241 --> 00:04:58,800
I'm going to ask around the house.

90
00:04:58,801 --> 00:05:02,640
See how many members
are hearing similar stories.

91
00:05:02,641 --> 00:05:06,240
Make an approach to post office
management at the highest level.

92
00:05:06,241 --> 00:05:10,000
I think I feel a campaign coming on.

93
00:05:10,001 --> 00:05:17,200
Oh, that should operate.

94
00:05:17,201 --> 00:05:21,123
And so my client, Mrs.

95
00:05:21,135 --> 00:05:26,080
Corps, seeks permission to
change her plea to not guilty.

96
00:05:26,081 --> 00:05:30,240
This is because she had no solicitor with
her during her interview under caution.

97
00:05:30,241 --> 00:05:33,200
And because there is also a technical issue

98
00:05:33,201 --> 00:05:37,920
which you may consider requires
expert evidence concerning a pin pad.

99
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,640
I can't see anything here.

100
00:05:40,641 --> 00:05:42,000
A pin pad was
faulty? Quiet, please.

101
00:05:42,001 --> 00:05:42,800
Very well, Mrs.

102
00:05:42,801 --> 00:05:46,880
Corps.

103
00:05:46,881 --> 00:05:48,000
I vacate your plea.

104
00:05:48,001 --> 00:05:49,840
How do you now
plead? Not guilty.

105
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,360
Is that him?

106
00:06:09,361 --> 00:06:11,920
The so-called trade unionist.

107
00:06:11,921 --> 00:06:13,360
He's got a bloody nerve.

108
00:06:13,361 --> 00:06:14,800
Federation, ma'am.

109
00:06:14,801 --> 00:06:17,440
A federation man who calls out of nowhere.

110
00:06:17,441 --> 00:06:19,760
How do we know we
can trust him? We don't.

111
00:06:19,761 --> 00:06:22,880
What a call.

112
00:06:22,881 --> 00:06:28,880
Hi, Arlen.

113
00:06:28,881 --> 00:06:29,520
Found a set.

114
00:06:29,521 --> 00:06:34,320
Yeah, that we've been
heard of any company.

115
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,000
All right, everyone.

116
00:06:40,001 --> 00:06:41,120
Should we make a start?

117
00:06:41,121 --> 00:06:43,040
Should we make a start? Thanks.

118
00:06:43,041 --> 00:06:44,480
Right.

119
00:06:44,481 --> 00:06:52,481
So, welcome to the second meeting of
the Justice for Supposed Masters Alliance.

120
00:06:53,281 --> 00:06:56,800
Now, before we get onto
our campaign update,

121
00:06:56,801 --> 00:07:01,120
we have a guest who'd
like permission to speak.

122
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:07,280
This is Michael Rudkin, friends.

123
00:07:07,281 --> 00:07:12,320
An executive officer of the National
Federation for Supposed Masters.

124
00:07:12,321 --> 00:07:14,480
Not anymore.

125
00:07:14,481 --> 00:07:17,360
The Federation, the Federation
sent me back my membership fee.

126
00:07:17,361 --> 00:07:18,400
He said he won't represent me.

127
00:07:18,401 --> 00:07:20,560
They tell me to get a good criminal lawyer.

128
00:07:20,561 --> 00:07:22,640
And that was the last I heard of them.

129
00:07:22,641 --> 00:07:24,160
I was so called union.

130
00:07:24,161 --> 00:07:27,040
I was being in bed with
a post office for years.

131
00:07:27,041 --> 00:07:28,480
I can't believe by the way I came in.

132
00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:29,481
I can tell you my story.

133
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:31,280
Up to you, Paul.

134
00:07:31,281 --> 00:07:38,560
Now, you think you're the little
guys facing up to one powerful enemy.

135
00:07:38,561 --> 00:07:38,960
You're wrong.

136
00:07:38,961 --> 00:07:42,800
Post office don't make
the computers, do they?

137
00:07:42,801 --> 00:07:46,880
No, they don't design the kit.

138
00:07:46,881 --> 00:07:48,560
They don't write the software.

139
00:07:48,561 --> 00:07:49,680
They don't run the network.

140
00:07:49,681 --> 00:07:57,200
That's a project to multinational
corporation, headquarters in Brattano.

141
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,280
I've been there for someone they can do.

142
00:08:01,281 --> 00:08:05,600
Two years ago, I got
myself an invitation to Fujitsu

143
00:08:05,601 --> 00:08:07,222
to sort out the issue
with the foreign exchange

144
00:08:07,234 --> 00:08:09,040
stock control that we were
all having problems with.

145
00:08:09,041 --> 00:08:12,480
Michael Rudkin, see you, George Delph.

146
00:08:12,481 --> 00:08:14,160
Thanks, Mike.

147
00:08:14,161 --> 00:08:18,160
19th of August, 2008.

148
00:08:18,161 --> 00:08:21,680
Cheers.

149
00:08:21,681 --> 00:08:22,800
Thanks, Mike.

150
00:08:22,801 --> 00:08:25,200
Mr. Ruckin, George Delph, hi.

151
00:08:25,201 --> 00:08:27,040
Hi, good to be here.

152
00:08:27,041 --> 00:08:29,200
And you're welcome to Fujitsu.

153
00:08:29,201 --> 00:08:29,760
Juicer.

154
00:08:29,761 --> 00:08:31,520
Nice to follow me.

155
00:08:31,521 --> 00:08:37,120
Horizon is the largest IT system in Europe.

156
00:08:37,121 --> 00:08:38,160
We're very proud of that.

157
00:08:38,161 --> 00:08:40,160
Outside the military, that is.

158
00:08:40,161 --> 00:08:44,080
Cost of a billion pounds.

159
00:08:44,081 --> 00:08:47,360
We've rolled out 40,000
terminals to your members.

160
00:08:47,361 --> 00:08:50,720
So this accounts for all the
James Bond stuff, does it?

161
00:08:50,721 --> 00:08:56,400
All I'm expecting is there'll give
me a bit of training I can pass on.

162
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,680
All right, stage of the hour, everything.

163
00:09:01,681 --> 00:09:04,613
I must be a while a lot of my
members have been complaining

164
00:09:04,625 --> 00:09:07,120
about your rubbish foreign
exchange stock control.

165
00:09:07,121 --> 00:09:08,720
We can help.

166
00:09:08,721 --> 00:09:11,120
A lot of my members have been losing money.

167
00:09:11,121 --> 00:09:12,960
The bottom line.

168
00:09:12,961 --> 00:09:13,680
They included.

169
00:09:13,681 --> 00:09:18,320
Meet your friendly covert operations team.

170
00:09:18,321 --> 00:09:24,480
They get in there, and this guy sits
me down at her right and terminal.

171
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,595
All right, so easiest
way to help is if I just

172
00:09:27,607 --> 00:09:29,920
show you how to adjust
your stock control manually.

173
00:09:29,921 --> 00:09:34,160
Well, I said to him, is this life?

174
00:09:34,161 --> 00:09:36,720
Sure, look at the clock.

175
00:09:36,721 --> 00:09:44,080
So if I start by adjusting this from
sterling to Euros, I'll ask her to him.

176
00:09:44,081 --> 00:09:49,840
You're inside some suppose
master's horizon, and he doesn't know.

177
00:09:49,841 --> 00:09:54,320
Said, yeah, yeah, I am.

178
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,360
How was am I going to
show you how to do this?

179
00:09:59,361 --> 00:10:05,120
And then right in front of my eyes, he
starts changing the suppose master's figures.

180
00:10:05,121 --> 00:10:06,560
Excuse me.

181
00:10:06,561 --> 00:10:09,329
I've been telling my
members for years, no

182
00:10:09,341 --> 00:10:12,320
one else has access
to their branch accounts.

183
00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:15,729
Okay, well, I'd better put
the figures back the way

184
00:10:15,741 --> 00:10:18,960
they were then or they
weren't balanced tonight.

185
00:10:18,961 --> 00:10:20,960
Yeah.

186
00:10:20,961 --> 00:10:28,961
They're just judgment.
Do you know what this means?

187
00:10:34,161 --> 00:10:37,029
It means they can sneak
in behind your book, change

188
00:10:37,041 --> 00:10:39,920
your figures, book her
off and leave with no trace.

189
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,346
No, no, no, no, no, no. They
said that was impossible.

190
00:10:48,358 --> 00:10:53,920
They said that the
branch accounts

191
00:10:53,921 --> 00:10:56,480
were totally secure.
That's what it told me. They lied.

192
00:10:56,481 --> 00:11:03,040
But if they're getting into our
accounts and messing about in there,

193
00:11:03,041 --> 00:11:05,153
then it's a bit rich for
them to claim that we

194
00:11:05,165 --> 00:11:07,520
have a 100% responsibility
when money goes missing.

195
00:11:07,521 --> 00:11:08,521
Exactly.

196
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,540
So I drive home from
Fujitsu, the next morning I

197
00:11:15,552 --> 00:11:21,280
wake up and my wife
is stood at the foot of

198
00:11:21,281 --> 00:11:26,160
our bed and there's
an order to beside her.

199
00:11:26,161 --> 00:11:34,161
Your post office is now 44,000
pounds in deficit, says he.

200
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,881
Coincidence? Revenge?
My wife ran the post

201
00:11:41,893 --> 00:11:45,280
office when I was away
on Federation business.

202
00:11:45,281 --> 00:11:53,281
So although I was the postmaster,
my poor wife is now a convicted criminal.

203
00:11:55,441 --> 00:12:01,120
You're welcome.

204
00:12:01,121 --> 00:12:03,120
Thank you.

205
00:12:03,121 --> 00:12:11,121
Wait, Mr. Rookill, thank you.

206
00:12:14,241 --> 00:12:16,720
Thank you.

207
00:12:16,721 --> 00:12:20,720
I won't do any good.

208
00:12:34,721 --> 00:12:42,721
So they punished him. They punished him
for standing up to him, so they did to me.

209
00:12:43,201 --> 00:12:46,099
They knew how to
fight him, but they knew I

210
00:12:46,111 --> 00:12:49,360
didn't stand a chance.
They just did it to teach

211
00:12:49,361 --> 00:12:52,510
me a lesson to teach
everyone in this room a lesson,

212
00:12:52,522 --> 00:12:55,440
that's what we're up against.
That is what we're up against.

213
00:12:55,441 --> 00:13:03,441
The post office is still
investigating, so it's

214
00:13:04,836 --> 00:13:12,480
going to take a bit
longer than we thought,

215
00:13:12,481 --> 00:13:19,680
as it's now 36 charges? How many? 36
charges. No, no, no, that's totally wrong.

216
00:13:19,681 --> 00:13:23,600
I've got the indictment right here, Jazz.
It's definitely now 36 charges.

217
00:13:23,601 --> 00:13:28,000
It was 19, where have all
these new ones come from?

218
00:13:28,001 --> 00:13:32,160
I don't know, I don't remember.

219
00:13:32,161 --> 00:13:39,040
And what about this? A shortfall.
It's now 11,000, that's more than doubled.

220
00:13:39,041 --> 00:13:41,126
He's selling everyone
stamps with a picture of

221
00:13:41,138 --> 00:13:43,280
the queen on them. We
love the queen, don't we?

222
00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:51,281
That's all right. Yeah, it's just all
these delays that do in both our heads in.

223
00:13:51,361 --> 00:13:55,677
Jazz, I think we should
get a medical report when

224
00:13:55,689 --> 00:13:59,840
cases go on and unlike this, it
can be hard for the defendant.

225
00:13:59,841 --> 00:14:05,680
She's fine.

226
00:14:05,681 --> 00:14:13,681
I'm just going to see
if they're ready for us.

227
00:14:15,921 --> 00:14:22,480
Everyone's eyes are on me.

228
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,520
It's okay.

229
00:14:31,521 --> 00:14:39,521
Sam, can you get the phone?

230
00:14:44,001 --> 00:14:49,635
Hello? Oh, it's Joe. Go,
she had me worried there.

231
00:14:49,647 --> 00:14:56,080
I'm just checking in
on you. Are you okay?

232
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:02,245
I'm up and down. Are you
getting out at all? Oh, I can't go out.

233
00:15:02,257 --> 00:15:07,840
Not to the good of the world
and not even to the supermarket.

234
00:15:07,841 --> 00:15:13,360
I see people I know, sometimes they
look surprised to see me and I wonder.

235
00:15:13,361 --> 00:15:18,069
Do they think I've gone to
prison already? Oh, Sam.

236
00:15:18,081 --> 00:15:22,800
If I just had the money
first, you'd be trying to get it.

237
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,480
I wouldn't be much fun for you, Joe.
Oh, God! Sam, what is it? It's okay.

238
00:15:28,481 --> 00:15:33,600
It's okay. I'm a right
job. It's just a postman.

239
00:15:33,601 --> 00:15:41,601
Every time the door goes, I
think it is them. Come to get me.

240
00:15:43,361 --> 00:15:47,440
Oh, I don't know what
you're supposed to say.

241
00:15:47,441 --> 00:15:55,441
No idea this was happening to other people.
I thought I was the only one.

242
00:15:56,721 --> 00:16:01,200
Though nights I was just sobbing, didn't
know what to do, how to get out this mess.

243
00:16:01,201 --> 00:16:04,080
Sounds like it was very traumatic for you.

244
00:16:04,081 --> 00:16:06,400
Well, it's not just me
that it's traumatic for.

245
00:16:06,401 --> 00:16:09,920
I just think that the post
office needs to investigate this.

246
00:16:09,921 --> 00:16:12,389
There's just got to be
something else going on,

247
00:16:12,401 --> 00:16:15,040
because it can't be
happening to this many people.

248
00:16:15,041 --> 00:16:18,880
Joe was crazy. She's a natural.

249
00:16:18,881 --> 00:16:21,040
Yeah, but who was listening?

250
00:16:21,041 --> 00:16:24,800
How can Sam die about these
allegations against the post office?

251
00:16:24,801 --> 00:16:26,400
I'm very concerned about this.

252
00:16:26,401 --> 00:16:29,040
Cases seem to be cropping
up all over the country.

253
00:16:29,041 --> 00:16:31,280
Who knew it, or the MP could be so nice?

254
00:16:31,281 --> 00:16:33,679
The post office for being,
I think, pretty hard-nosed

255
00:16:33,691 --> 00:16:35,920
in the way they've taken
the case with the court.

256
00:16:35,921 --> 00:16:39,920
No trouble is nobody watches local news.

257
00:16:39,921 --> 00:16:43,920
I think the bosses need to think
again, and be more sympathetic.

258
00:16:43,921 --> 00:16:51,921
They're all.

259
00:17:11,921 --> 00:17:18,165
A tiny number of ex-subpost masters
who appear to be making distinct

260
00:17:18,177 --> 00:17:22,560
allegations with respect to the
operation of the horizon system.

261
00:17:22,561 --> 00:17:25,522
But in two of the cases,
the individuals have

262
00:17:25,534 --> 00:17:28,640
in the past pleaded
guilty to false accounting.

263
00:17:28,641 --> 00:17:32,937
I have written back to the Member
of Parliament, making clear that post

264
00:17:32,949 --> 00:17:37,440
office limited does not accept any of
the allegations that are being made,

265
00:17:37,441 --> 00:17:44,960
and will robustly defend its position if
any civil action is mounted against it.

266
00:17:44,961 --> 00:17:48,000
Freedom of information.

267
00:17:48,001 --> 00:17:49,765
Just when you think
you've cracked it, they

268
00:17:49,777 --> 00:17:51,760
come up with a new
trick to keep us in the dark.

269
00:17:51,761 --> 00:17:53,600
Listen to this.

270
00:17:53,601 --> 00:17:57,223
You're only allowed a
question to ask a question that

271
00:17:57,235 --> 00:18:00,800
will take one person less
than 18 hours to research.

272
00:18:00,801 --> 00:18:02,880
I mean, what?

273
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,760
What do you think?
Hey.

274
00:18:07,761 --> 00:18:15,761
Try and have a life here, Alan.

275
00:18:21,201 --> 00:18:29,201
I just want to be able
to take on holiday again.

276
00:18:30,561 --> 00:18:37,680
This is a proper holiday,
a broad, not just camping.

277
00:18:37,681 --> 00:18:44,240
And still half of Snowdonia
waiting to be quiet.

278
00:18:44,241 --> 00:18:51,360
A, the post office has taken all our money.

279
00:18:51,361 --> 00:18:56,640
B, my knees are way too
old for snowed enough.

280
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,359
And see, you can't
possibly go on holiday,

281
00:19:01,371 --> 00:19:04,800
too busy campaigning,
morning, noon and night.

282
00:19:04,801 --> 00:19:09,360
This is all taking too long.

283
00:19:09,361 --> 00:19:11,360
OK.

284
00:19:11,361 --> 00:19:19,361
Hiya. OK. Sorry of late.

285
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,080
What the hell, nope. So, it's a concept.

286
00:19:40,081 --> 00:19:43,520
It's OK.

287
00:19:43,521 --> 00:19:46,400
So, Sam, what you got?

288
00:19:46,401 --> 00:19:49,360
Sam.

289
00:19:49,361 --> 00:19:51,840
It's OK.

290
00:19:51,841 --> 00:19:52,800
Sam, what have you done?

291
00:19:52,801 --> 00:19:53,600
How have you done this?

292
00:19:53,601 --> 00:19:56,560
Sam, look at me, what?

293
00:19:56,561 --> 00:19:59,200
Why don't you do something?

294
00:19:59,201 --> 00:20:02,480
I need an ambulance, please.

295
00:20:02,481 --> 00:20:08,720
It's a 45 foul field road.
Also, WS29WBB for Bravo.

296
00:20:08,721 --> 00:20:16,721
You're too old for me.

297
00:20:20,881 --> 00:20:22,480
I need to help you, OK?

298
00:20:22,481 --> 00:20:25,600
I tried everything.

299
00:20:25,601 --> 00:20:26,640
I don't know.

300
00:20:26,641 --> 00:20:27,520
I don't know.

301
00:20:27,521 --> 00:20:28,320
It's OK.

302
00:20:28,321 --> 00:20:29,920
It's OK, I'm here.

303
00:20:29,921 --> 00:20:31,360
Good luck with you.

304
00:20:31,361 --> 00:20:33,280
Hey, can you stop snaring us?

305
00:20:33,281 --> 00:20:34,400
Just mind your own business!

306
00:20:34,401 --> 00:20:38,800
Come on, it's OK, Sam.

307
00:20:38,801 --> 00:20:41,840
What's the next
one? Oh, it's candy.

308
00:20:41,841 --> 00:20:43,760
Candy, OK.

309
00:20:43,761 --> 00:20:45,520
So, if you can find it.

310
00:20:45,521 --> 00:20:48,480
He's doing well, yeah.

311
00:20:48,481 --> 00:20:49,760
We'll be doing the spelling bee soon.

312
00:20:49,761 --> 00:20:51,600
No? Hello.

313
00:20:51,601 --> 00:20:57,641
Mr. Singh? Yeah, yeah.

314
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,880
Can I have a word?

315
00:21:00,881 --> 00:21:04,480
Yeah, two minutes and then burgers, OK?

316
00:21:04,481 --> 00:21:11,360
Hey, how are you doing?

317
00:21:11,361 --> 00:21:13,600
I want to stress you'll be sedated.

318
00:21:13,601 --> 00:21:14,960
Do you want to feel anything?

319
00:21:14,961 --> 00:21:19,760
ECT had a lot of bad press at one point,
but re-continue to find it very useful

320
00:21:19,761 --> 00:21:23,760
in giving relief to patients a
severely depressed asserman.

321
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,560
And nothing else we've
tried has worked, so...

322
00:21:28,561 --> 00:21:34,320
Just don't go home
and Google it, Mr. Singh.

323
00:21:34,321 --> 00:21:40,160
We'll talk more later, no.

324
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,240
Like, you're not going to Google it.

325
00:21:56,241 --> 00:21:57,920
Hello? It's mad.

326
00:21:57,921 --> 00:22:00,960
But you're not the worst thing, Joe.

327
00:22:00,961 --> 00:22:08,000
If I don't let her carry on,
bleeding guilty, like she wanted to.

328
00:22:08,001 --> 00:22:09,040
In the first place.

329
00:22:09,041 --> 00:22:11,680
All right, yeah.

330
00:22:11,681 --> 00:22:16,800
She might have gone to
prison, but... She'd be up by now.

331
00:22:16,801 --> 00:22:18,480
Oh, jeez.

332
00:22:18,481 --> 00:22:21,280
My boy would have a mother.

333
00:22:21,281 --> 00:22:25,920
And Sam would be free.

334
00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:31,360
Great.

335
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,280
Great.

336
00:22:33,281 --> 00:22:41,281
The problem is relatively very small,

337
00:23:00,321 --> 00:23:05,840
very few complaints, but this is a
very serious matter for the post office,

338
00:23:05,841 --> 00:23:09,120
whose business rests on our
reputation for being trustworthy.

339
00:23:09,121 --> 00:23:16,080
We all represent constituents
who tell us that your helpline

340
00:23:16,081 --> 00:23:19,280
is of little value, the
training you offer is minimal.

341
00:23:19,281 --> 00:23:21,760
Angela is our head of network services.

342
00:23:21,761 --> 00:23:23,200
Thank you.

343
00:23:23,201 --> 00:23:27,840
Well, the helpline and support are there.

344
00:23:27,841 --> 00:23:32,640
Now, whether staff take it up
or not, that's another matter.

345
00:23:32,641 --> 00:23:39,120
Mrs. Venils, is the post office
saying that horizon is 100% foolproof,

346
00:23:39,121 --> 00:23:41,478
because that will
make it the first perfect

347
00:23:41,490 --> 00:23:44,080
software system ever
implemented by government.

348
00:23:44,081 --> 00:23:49,040
The system is robust, and
gentlemen, we have nothing to hide.

349
00:23:49,041 --> 00:23:53,680
Indeed, we're ready to mount
and fund an independent review.

350
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,720
Well, that's marvelous.

351
00:23:56,721 --> 00:23:59,126
And I'm sure Mr. Bates
and the justice for South Post

352
00:23:59,138 --> 00:24:01,920
Monsters Alliance will be
thrilled to get involved with that.

353
00:24:01,921 --> 00:24:09,921
Thank you for the missed me, Susan.

354
00:24:16,641 --> 00:24:19,760
How is life in the sleepy old post office?

355
00:24:19,761 --> 00:24:20,240
Is it easy? I wish.

356
00:24:20,241 --> 00:24:24,000
High finance misses you, kid.

357
00:24:24,001 --> 00:24:26,560
I'm a proud public servant now.

358
00:24:26,561 --> 00:24:29,120
Well, that wage is not half
as much fun as your old life.

359
00:24:29,121 --> 00:24:32,960
Chasing down villains
and fraudsters with me.

360
00:24:32,961 --> 00:24:38,400
Susan, is that what we're
doing here? I don't know.

361
00:24:38,401 --> 00:24:41,200
That's why I hired you.

362
00:24:41,201 --> 00:24:49,201
Ah, Angela Vandenberger
is head of network services.

363
00:24:49,921 --> 00:24:51,680
Bob Rutherford from Second Sight.

364
00:24:51,681 --> 00:24:53,040
Angela, nice to meet you.

365
00:24:53,041 --> 00:24:54,400
Here to help.

366
00:24:54,401 --> 00:24:58,640
We've pulled a dozen
files for you to look at.

367
00:24:58,641 --> 00:25:00,640
All the cases the MPs have been pushing.

368
00:25:00,641 --> 00:25:03,600
Anything else you want,
though, we can provide.

369
00:25:03,601 --> 00:25:06,480
Accounts, procedures,
backgrounds, are for upper-list.

370
00:25:06,481 --> 00:25:10,240
And I'd like to visit
few jits to in Brackenaw.

371
00:25:10,241 --> 00:25:11,920
No problem.

372
00:25:11,921 --> 00:25:15,760
Oh, are you not staying?

373
00:25:15,761 --> 00:25:19,040
Knowing you have old Bob, I imagine
you're itching to get on the road.

374
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,280
Thank you all.

375
00:25:21,281 --> 00:25:25,120
Alan, you can't go meet him on your own.

376
00:25:25,121 --> 00:25:28,640
Because how will you know
what to ask this investigator?

377
00:25:28,641 --> 00:25:32,800
And because she's my neighbour and
she's really nice and she wants to help.

378
00:25:32,801 --> 00:25:37,120
Kaylin L, past
master and livery man.

379
00:25:37,121 --> 00:25:42,480
Kaylin L, forensic accountant,
Alan, bite around off.

380
00:25:42,481 --> 00:25:43,920
Alan.

381
00:25:43,921 --> 00:25:47,840
Alan Bates.

382
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,360
Yeah.

383
00:25:49,361 --> 00:25:55,840
Kaylin L, past master and livery man
of the worshipful company of arbitrators.

384
00:25:55,841 --> 00:25:57,200
You've been looking me up.

385
00:25:57,201 --> 00:26:00,161
And board of the inland
revenues form a chief

386
00:26:00,173 --> 00:26:02,880
prosecuting and
investigating accountant.

387
00:26:02,881 --> 00:26:04,160
Now that was a fun job.

388
00:26:04,161 --> 00:26:05,920
Shall we?

389
00:26:05,921 --> 00:26:10,076
May I underline that
although the post office has

390
00:26:10,088 --> 00:26:14,000
agreed to fund this
independent investigation,

391
00:26:14,001 --> 00:26:18,240
Mr. Rutherford's organisation's second
site will be working for us, the MPs,

392
00:26:18,241 --> 00:26:24,240
and therefore indirectly for you,
justice for sub-person officers' alliance.

393
00:26:24,241 --> 00:26:29,440
So, Alan, Kay, what would you like to know?

394
00:26:29,441 --> 00:26:34,640
Well, I'd like to know exactly what makes
you think you're qualified to do this job.

395
00:26:34,641 --> 00:26:38,480
Well, I'm a forensic accountant
of many years experience.

396
00:26:38,481 --> 00:26:42,480
I don't doubt your paper
qualifications, Mr. Rutherford.

397
00:26:42,481 --> 00:26:48,320
I have them here in front of me, but I see
nothing to persuade me that second site is

398
00:26:48,321 --> 00:26:52,160
remotely capable of producing
a truly independent report.

399
00:26:52,161 --> 00:26:55,760
One that's ready to bite
the hand that feeds you.

400
00:26:55,761 --> 00:26:59,680
Bob Rutherford is a member of the
Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.

401
00:26:59,681 --> 00:27:01,893
He has led hundreds
of investigations all

402
00:27:01,905 --> 00:27:06,000
over the world into banking fraud,
corruption, rogue traders, subprime mortgages.

403
00:27:06,001 --> 00:27:07,120
Doesn't answer my question.

404
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,360
How can we be sure you will
investigate fairly and independently?

405
00:27:13,361 --> 00:27:16,320
Because the people who
suggested me know me have old,

406
00:27:16,321 --> 00:27:20,880
and that they want to hire me
because they know what I like to do best,

407
00:27:20,881 --> 00:27:24,400
which is to clear innocent
people who look guilty.

408
00:27:24,401 --> 00:27:29,360
I still don't see how we can trust him
when he's taking post office money.

409
00:27:29,361 --> 00:27:32,400
Well, you can't pay him.
I can't pay you either.

410
00:27:32,401 --> 00:27:34,720
I'll help him my spare time.

411
00:27:34,721 --> 00:27:38,080
What a really neat is.
Lawyers will work for nothing.

412
00:27:38,081 --> 00:27:44,960
One day, you'll find your precious lawyers,
and we'll get the scandal into court.

413
00:27:44,961 --> 00:27:49,280
But we'll need evidence, which mortals like
us haven't a hope of getting our hands on.

414
00:27:49,281 --> 00:27:52,400
But Bob's outfit, second site.

415
00:27:52,401 --> 00:27:56,720
They'll have access to
seven years of raw data.

416
00:27:56,721 --> 00:27:58,640
This Bob.

417
00:27:58,641 --> 00:28:02,880
We can't just look at
individual cases, though.

418
00:28:02,881 --> 00:28:06,240
He has to look at horizon
as a whole, as a system.

419
00:28:06,241 --> 00:28:10,400
Might take it you're happy
to support his investigation.

420
00:28:10,401 --> 00:28:13,360
Well, being is it's the only one we've got.

421
00:28:13,361 --> 00:28:21,361
When I first came to
the post office, they were

422
00:28:27,761 --> 00:28:29,921
introducing chip and pen,
and it never worked properly.

423
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,074
The base unit, the horizon
computer, whatever you

424
00:28:35,086 --> 00:28:39,120
call it, the thing that
sits under the counter,

425
00:28:39,121 --> 00:28:42,240
I thought of it as
like an alien thing.

426
00:28:42,241 --> 00:28:46,800
Sometimes engineers would come
from Fujitsu, the clever badges on.

427
00:28:46,801 --> 00:28:50,320
And I never had any
idea what they were doing.

428
00:28:50,321 --> 00:28:58,240
This is probably a really
stupid question, Bob.

429
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,000
There were no such things as
stupid questions, only stupid answers.

430
00:29:02,001 --> 00:29:09,280
That 36,000 pounds,
I'm supposed to have lost.

431
00:29:09,281 --> 00:29:13,920
Where did it go? I haven't got it.

432
00:29:13,921 --> 00:29:15,920
So who has?

433
00:29:15,921 --> 00:29:21,920
I don't know, but I'm gonna find out.

434
00:29:35,921 --> 00:29:37,840
It's been in breakfast now.

435
00:29:37,841 --> 00:29:41,120
We're private people, Bob.

436
00:29:41,121 --> 00:29:43,440
This was our family home.

437
00:29:43,441 --> 00:29:50,000
But the post office gave us no option,
you know, the way of making a living.

438
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Thank you.

439
00:29:52,081 --> 00:29:54,960
Jason.

440
00:29:54,961 --> 00:30:01,600
My wife has had it so much harder than me.

441
00:30:01,601 --> 00:30:07,840
Susan was in charge while I
was away on Federation business.

442
00:30:07,841 --> 00:30:12,880
She never told me so I had
no idea she was in trouble.

443
00:30:12,881 --> 00:30:17,840
Even though at least half my work in
Federation was horizon related by then.

444
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,800
I said to her, you were
in my fucking career.

445
00:30:24,801 --> 00:30:27,920
You've destroyed our business.

446
00:30:27,921 --> 00:30:33,520
Mr. Radkin, please
don't feel obliged to settle.

447
00:30:33,521 --> 00:30:36,240
I said that before, sir.

448
00:30:36,241 --> 00:30:44,160
Are they punished my wife?

449
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,640
Who never stole a penny piece?

450
00:30:46,641 --> 00:30:50,640
Just because I got inside Fujitsu and
saw something that I shouldn't have.

451
00:30:50,641 --> 00:30:58,641
I think what I had was a computer book.

452
00:31:02,241 --> 00:31:08,080
They just called a calendar
square book that I can't be sure.

453
00:31:08,081 --> 00:31:10,240
But it was real.

454
00:31:10,241 --> 00:31:12,480
It was real.

455
00:31:12,481 --> 00:31:13,481
Other people had it.

456
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Yeah, I tried to tell the court that
I just kept sort of saying it wrong.

457
00:31:21,041 --> 00:31:28,880
And the more I tried,
the more I can't explain it.

458
00:31:28,881 --> 00:31:36,881
It was like I was on the
edge of a great dark hole.

459
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,160
I was just falling into it.

460
00:31:46,161 --> 00:31:53,760
The thing is, I knew that they were lying
and I knew that I was telling the truth.

461
00:31:53,761 --> 00:31:58,160
I just thought this is British justice.

462
00:31:58,161 --> 00:32:00,880
That's all I've got
to do is tell the truth.

463
00:32:00,881 --> 00:32:06,720
But... Sorry.

464
00:32:06,721 --> 00:32:10,720
Oh, sorry, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I was just trying to tell you.

465
00:32:10,721 --> 00:32:11,040
No.

466
00:32:11,041 --> 00:32:15,069
No, it's just the more
of you people I meet,

467
00:32:15,081 --> 00:32:19,120
unless I know how
you're all still standing.

468
00:32:19,121 --> 00:32:27,121
Susan?

469
00:32:27,841 --> 00:32:29,200
I'm expecting you today.

470
00:32:29,201 --> 00:32:32,240
We need to speak now.

471
00:32:32,241 --> 00:32:36,320
Always good to see an old
friend, but I do have a diary.

472
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:37,600
Not to don't, don't.

473
00:32:37,601 --> 00:32:41,040
Lee cast.

474
00:32:41,041 --> 00:32:45,680
You know, the one you handed all
the way to the Royal Court of Justice.

475
00:32:45,681 --> 00:32:46,640
That was my predecessor.

476
00:32:46,641 --> 00:32:48,160
Well, you knew he didn't have any money.

477
00:32:48,161 --> 00:32:53,360
You have humiliated him. You
have bankrupted him, and I don't get it.

478
00:32:53,361 --> 00:32:57,440
Yes, I don't know why we did that.

479
00:32:57,441 --> 00:32:59,920
Well, let me suggest two reasons.
One, you're stupid.

480
00:32:59,921 --> 00:33:03,680
Or two, you want to rub his nose in the
dirt, use him to frighten off everyone else.

481
00:33:03,681 --> 00:33:05,520
I wasn't even here then.

482
00:33:05,521 --> 00:33:07,600
Not pleased.
What is wrong with you, people?

483
00:33:07,601 --> 00:33:11,395
Are we ever to see
the pin pad that Mrs.

484
00:33:11,407 --> 00:33:14,960
Cora ledges was
responsible for her shortfalls?

485
00:33:14,961 --> 00:33:17,769
Your honour, I can now
confirm that post office

486
00:33:17,781 --> 00:33:20,960
limited is unable to produce
the pin pad in question.

487
00:33:20,961 --> 00:33:27,040
Because I'm told it was sent away
for repair and has been reprogrammed.

488
00:33:27,041 --> 00:33:29,200
So it was faulty.

489
00:33:29,201 --> 00:33:34,480
In those circumstances, your honour,
the prosecution offers no evidence.

490
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,160
This matter has dragged on for three years.

491
00:33:38,161 --> 00:33:44,320
I direct that a not guilty verdict be
entered on all 36 counts on the indictment.

492
00:33:44,321 --> 00:33:47,680
Mrs. Cora, you're free to leave.

493
00:33:47,681 --> 00:33:50,960
Court rise.

494
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,080
Hey. See? You were right.

495
00:34:04,081 --> 00:34:06,800
It was faulty.

496
00:34:06,801 --> 00:34:09,840
So I'm three years of our
life's supposed to open now.

497
00:34:09,841 --> 00:34:10,560
Okay. No.

498
00:34:10,561 --> 00:34:12,936
Because there won't
ever put another picture

499
00:34:12,948 --> 00:34:15,280
in the paper, will they
decide on innocent? Come on.

500
00:34:15,281 --> 00:34:23,281
We're making progress.

501
00:34:24,401 --> 00:34:27,600
Now the investigation is
properly up and running.

502
00:34:27,601 --> 00:34:32,000
I just thought enough go betweens for
the good idea to bring you two together.

503
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,600
I do hope it's been useful for both of you.

504
00:34:35,601 --> 00:34:36,800
Terrific idea.

505
00:34:36,801 --> 00:34:37,920
Thank you James.

506
00:34:37,921 --> 00:34:41,360
And Alan, I do hope you'll take
away from this a sure understanding

507
00:34:41,361 --> 00:34:46,160
that post offices is fully committed
as you are to resolving this situation.

508
00:34:46,161 --> 00:34:47,840
Thank you.

509
00:34:47,841 --> 00:34:52,720
And if there's anything
else? No, I actually.

510
00:34:52,721 --> 00:34:59,760
Why are you only
looking at 12 cases?

511
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,200
Well, they are the 12 cases put
forward by members of parliament.

512
00:35:05,201 --> 00:35:10,240
All the cases where we are alert to
the possibility of miscarriage of justice.

513
00:35:10,241 --> 00:35:12,640
There are a lot more though, Paula.

514
00:35:12,641 --> 00:35:17,440
Victims who were never
charged with any criminal offense,

515
00:35:17,441 --> 00:35:20,400
but perhaps your people
haven't told you about that.

516
00:35:20,401 --> 00:35:23,389
About all the destitution
people sleeping in

517
00:35:23,401 --> 00:35:26,400
their cars losing their
house, their health.

518
00:35:26,401 --> 00:35:29,040
Surely you'd like to hear from them too.

519
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Is that your throw away exit line?

520
00:35:37,681 --> 00:35:42,880
I was just thinking, you
know, you knew the full story.

521
00:35:42,881 --> 00:35:44,960
You wouldn't want that
on your conscience, so.

522
00:35:44,961 --> 00:35:48,960
Well, shall I suggest
a few names? Oh, yes.

523
00:35:48,961 --> 00:35:53,600
Good idea.

524
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,800
These are what I have here.

525
00:35:58,801 --> 00:36:06,801
Bob, good to hear from you.

526
00:36:09,441 --> 00:36:10,400
Hi there.

527
00:36:10,401 --> 00:36:11,680
The day you went to few digits.

528
00:36:11,681 --> 00:36:14,480
Are you sure it was
the 19th of all? 2008.

529
00:36:14,481 --> 00:36:17,920
Yeah, never forget that.

530
00:36:17,921 --> 00:36:19,200
Last day of our whole life.

531
00:36:19,201 --> 00:36:23,040
Michael, you're not down as
a visitor on their security logs.

532
00:36:23,041 --> 00:36:26,880
Post office are denying
that your visit ever happened.

533
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,240
Of course they are.

534
00:36:28,241 --> 00:36:29,760
Can you prove it?

535
00:36:29,761 --> 00:36:35,680
Michael, can you prove you were there?

536
00:36:35,681 --> 00:36:39,680
Bob, there's four years ago.

537
00:36:39,681 --> 00:36:42,240
I don't work for the post of us anymore.

538
00:36:46,401 --> 00:36:54,401
I think you knew your best friend,
but then you can do a proper job.

539
00:37:02,081 --> 00:37:04,800
It's like, it's lovely to be here.

540
00:37:04,801 --> 00:37:05,360
Thank you.

541
00:37:05,361 --> 00:37:08,240
Paula, how often did you
get to visit a place like this?

542
00:37:08,241 --> 00:37:10,960
Probably once a month if I can.

543
00:37:10,961 --> 00:37:12,560
Oh, what kind of police?

544
00:37:12,561 --> 00:37:15,360
I mean, you're the big boss to
think they're getting intimidated.

545
00:37:15,361 --> 00:37:18,000
No, this is the post office.

546
00:37:18,001 --> 00:37:20,880
I get treated the same as everybody
else and they tell me how it is.

547
00:37:20,881 --> 00:37:25,280
And what it like being the chief
executive of a major company?

548
00:37:25,281 --> 00:37:29,840
Well, I think you can tell by the
smile on my face that it's great.

549
00:37:29,841 --> 00:37:31,760
Retail is detailed.

550
00:37:31,761 --> 00:37:32,800
Shut up, you have it.

551
00:37:32,801 --> 00:37:34,240
Shut up, you silly cow.

552
00:37:34,241 --> 00:37:36,560
Come on, come on, get your breakfast.

553
00:37:42,481 --> 00:37:47,840
I represent evidence to show that the
post office has made failures in support,

554
00:37:47,841 --> 00:37:51,760
investigation, training, and I
find clear evidence of two bugs.

555
00:37:51,761 --> 00:37:55,600
Two. We gave you 47 cases.

556
00:37:55,601 --> 00:38:00,480
47. At this draft report of
yours only mentions three.

557
00:38:00,481 --> 00:38:04,960
Where's Michael Rooken who could
prove their lying about remote access?

558
00:38:04,961 --> 00:38:06,240
He can't prove it, actually.

559
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,760
Well, members of Parliament would certainly
like to see more individual cases.

560
00:38:09,761 --> 00:38:13,680
Oh, look, the point is
not individual cases.

561
00:38:13,681 --> 00:38:17,760
The point is total systemic
failure, which you don't mention.

562
00:38:17,761 --> 00:38:20,000
Well, we haven't found
hard evidence of that.

563
00:38:20,001 --> 00:38:23,520
Well, what would you call the
endless pinpowder novelies?

564
00:38:23,521 --> 00:38:29,120
And shortfalls doubling before people's
eyes and overnight so-called corrections?

565
00:38:29,121 --> 00:38:33,840
Well, there were 68,000 users
processing six million transactions a day.

566
00:38:33,841 --> 00:38:37,760
Well, this is just the gospel according
to the post column for it to be systemic.

567
00:38:37,761 --> 00:38:42,080
That would have to mean that the whole
network was affected, and it just isn't.

568
00:38:42,081 --> 00:38:45,120
What about the way they abuse
their power and prosecute people

569
00:38:45,121 --> 00:38:49,280
without investigating properly,
and then terminate them.

570
00:38:49,281 --> 00:38:53,040
On three months notice, walk
away with their life savings.

571
00:38:53,041 --> 00:38:54,960
Is that not a systemic failure?

572
00:38:54,961 --> 00:38:58,480
We all agreed from the beginning
that the report should be accurate.

573
00:38:58,481 --> 00:39:01,840
Post office has left a trail of
destruction ever since the day

574
00:39:01,841 --> 00:39:06,160
that Horizon was introduced,
and we're just sitting around

575
00:39:06,161 --> 00:39:08,080
chatting about it while
they're still ruining lives.

576
00:39:08,081 --> 00:39:10,240
Systemically.

577
00:39:10,241 --> 00:39:14,640
Ah, I agree to this.

578
00:39:14,641 --> 00:39:16,560
I must have been mad.

579
00:39:16,561 --> 00:39:19,040
Well, someone with bees at their bonnets.

580
00:39:19,041 --> 00:39:21,440
I was born in Liverpool.

581
00:39:21,441 --> 00:39:26,080
He's an accountant, Alan.
He's naturally cautious.

582
00:39:26,081 --> 00:39:27,120
Cautious like you.

583
00:39:27,121 --> 00:39:29,120
I can be cautious.

584
00:39:29,121 --> 00:39:31,360
What's with me and
they're banging the table.

585
00:39:31,361 --> 00:39:34,240
Let's see, you know they will agree before.

586
00:39:34,241 --> 00:39:37,840
All that grandstanding of me.
I look that from you, okay?

587
00:39:37,841 --> 00:39:42,000
Ah, I don't get angry.
I just get frustrated.

588
00:39:42,001 --> 00:39:50,001
Second sight are going to have to
come up with something better than this.

589
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:02,160
Bob, how's it going?
Michael, good.

590
00:40:02,161 --> 00:40:05,360
Erm, any luck?

591
00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:06,240
It's been a long time.

592
00:40:06,241 --> 00:40:08,160
A lot of water under the bridge.

593
00:40:08,161 --> 00:40:11,120
Yeah, okay.

594
00:40:11,121 --> 00:40:12,320
I understand.

595
00:40:12,321 --> 00:40:14,880
But, er, see you touched.

596
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:23,760
Oh, my fucking good God.

597
00:40:31,841 --> 00:40:36,160
Michael, thank you.

598
00:40:36,161 --> 00:40:38,480
Thank you so much.

599
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,000
So, Bob, I can confirm that in August 2008,

600
00:40:48,001 --> 00:40:52,480
the basement of Fujitsu's
building in Brachnott did

601
00:40:52,481 --> 00:40:56,400
contain a horizon testing
vitamin note, a test environment.

602
00:40:56,401 --> 00:41:00,800
And that's what we believe you're
supposed to master Mr. Redkin saw.

603
00:41:00,801 --> 00:41:02,320
He got the wrong end of the stick.

604
00:41:02,321 --> 00:41:07,680
The test environment wasn't physically
connected to the live horizon system,

605
00:41:07,681 --> 00:41:12,000
so it wasn't possible for the
transactions he thought he saw to be real.

606
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,720
Got it. Thank you.

607
00:41:16,721 --> 00:41:19,440
Let's clear that up.

608
00:41:19,441 --> 00:41:20,720
Good.

609
00:41:20,721 --> 00:41:24,560
See you out.

610
00:41:24,561 --> 00:41:28,240
Thank you for joining
me by conference call.

611
00:41:28,241 --> 00:41:32,080
I'm sorry for the short notice
in keeping the board updated.

612
00:41:32,081 --> 00:41:37,760
The Horizon Review Interim Report will
be presented to MPs in one week's time.

613
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,440
The report has found no systemic
issues with the Horizon Computer system,

614
00:41:43,441 --> 00:41:49,440
but I am concerned that the report
from the independent forensic accountant

615
00:41:49,441 --> 00:41:55,440
is not as factual as expected
and could lead to loose language.

616
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:10,480
What are you? poacherton
gamekeeper. This report of yours

617
00:42:10,481 --> 00:42:13,760
turns out to be not how bad
considering the same price.

618
00:42:13,761 --> 00:42:15,360
I like it.

619
00:42:15,361 --> 00:42:18,320
I just hope it makes a difference.

620
00:42:18,321 --> 00:42:22,320
What got Michael Ruddkin
into the final version?

621
00:42:22,321 --> 00:42:28,560
An email inviting him to Brachnott, copied
the seven name post office executive.

622
00:42:28,561 --> 00:42:29,561
Hold on.

623
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,251
Okay, first they say he
wasn't there, then they say

624
00:42:33,263 --> 00:42:36,560
he was there, but what
he's glasses were broken.

625
00:42:36,561 --> 00:42:39,680
I wonder if they even know
they're talking volumes.

626
00:42:39,681 --> 00:42:41,040
Welcome aboard Bob.

627
00:42:41,041 --> 00:42:46,400
Yeah, they still say that there's no
remote access into your accounts.

628
00:42:46,401 --> 00:42:48,646
I'm sorry, but I don't
think I'm going to be

629
00:42:48,658 --> 00:42:52,080
able to prove that they're wrong
and that you're right on this one.

630
00:42:52,081 --> 00:42:58,000
Ah, but Alan there are things in documents
that I found in the post office files.

631
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:00,960
But you don't believe
going to tell me more?

632
00:43:00,961 --> 00:43:03,760
Someone else I need to tell first.

633
00:43:03,761 --> 00:43:11,761
Hello all.

634
00:43:13,441 --> 00:43:17,360
We've ever seen a
sunshine in your gorgeous.

635
00:43:17,361 --> 00:43:20,320
I was hoping you'd be
sitting somewhere quiet.

636
00:43:20,321 --> 00:43:23,920
Yeah, I can do that or
I can put the kettle on.

637
00:43:23,921 --> 00:43:26,480
Me and Joshua will put the kettle on.

638
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:32,880
You'll investigate a Ryan Fleming.

639
00:43:32,881 --> 00:43:34,080
The third.

640
00:43:34,081 --> 00:43:36,720
So do you ever see his reporter bay?

641
00:43:36,721 --> 00:43:39,120
No.

642
00:43:39,121 --> 00:43:47,121
17th of May 2006, he recorded that
he had analyzed your horizon accounts

643
00:43:47,601 --> 00:43:52,000
and was unable to find
any evidence of theft.

644
00:43:52,001 --> 00:43:55,600
I plead guilty to false counting instead.

645
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,717
Yes, no evidence
means they had no right to

646
00:43:59,729 --> 00:44:03,280
charge you with theft
and therefore no right

647
00:44:03,281 --> 00:44:05,360
to plea bargain you
down to false accounting.

648
00:44:05,361 --> 00:44:11,360
Joe, no evidence means they had
no right to take you to court at all.

649
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:32,880
Everything I've gone
through, everything I've lost, 10

650
00:44:37,521 --> 00:44:43,040
years of heartache and
sleepless nights and always skin.

651
00:44:43,041 --> 00:44:49,920
They destroyed our whole life for a life.

652
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,680
What kind of people are they?

653
00:44:55,681 --> 00:45:03,440
The second site report presented
to MPs in Westminster today

654
00:45:03,441 --> 00:45:05,975
was expected to include
criticism of the horizon

655
00:45:05,987 --> 00:45:08,320
computer system and of
the senior management

656
00:45:08,321 --> 00:45:10,605
of the post office.
But while the report

657
00:45:10,617 --> 00:45:13,200
does raise concerns
about unreliable hardware

658
00:45:13,201 --> 00:45:15,820
and poor training, a post
office spokesman said

659
00:45:15,832 --> 00:45:18,240
the investigation
clearly shows its horizon

660
00:45:18,241 --> 00:45:21,047
system as a whole is
operating as it should.

661
00:45:21,059 --> 00:45:25,040
MPs praised the post office for the
way they dealt with these difficult issues.

662
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,800
Alan Bates? Alan, it's Paul of Annals.

663
00:45:44,801 --> 00:45:49,360
Paula.

664
00:45:49,361 --> 00:45:57,361
Chocking. So I was thinking...
Where do we go from here?

665
00:46:00,081 --> 00:46:06,640
Well, um, I've been
thinking about that too.

666
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,440
Well, great. It should the two
of us try and find a way forward.

667
00:46:11,441 --> 00:46:14,960
If you want something
done properly, do it yourself.

668
00:46:14,961 --> 00:46:17,680
Exactly.

669
00:46:17,681 --> 00:46:23,200
Well, how can I help?

670
00:46:28,001 --> 00:46:34,800
d Cardos born is hiding in
those weak and drunken hearts d

671
00:46:34,801 --> 00:46:38,400
d 'Cause he kissed the
girls and made them cry d

672
00:46:38,401 --> 00:46:42,320
d It was hard face creams,
a missing adventure d

673
00:46:42,321 --> 00:46:48,160
d Peep, hippo, hippo, hippo d

674
00:46:48,161 --> 00:46:54,480
d And if you're a sick, give
me your hand and I'll hold you d

675
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,480
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